Disputatio gestu - Revision history

Bonsall at 10:12, 24 November 2025

2025-11-24T10:12:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:12, 24 November 2025
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	{{Inset Story		{{Inset Story
	\|Has Critical Literature=Nishimura (2001); Rajna (1878); Rajna (1880); Gibb (1886)		\|Has Critical Literature=Nishimura (2001); Rajna (1878); Rajna (1880); Gibb (1886)
			\|Has Motif=Evidence; Religion; Religious conflict; Christianity; Islam; (Threat of) bodily mutilation; Military conflict; Misinterpretation
	\|Has Summary='''Disputation through Signs'''		\|Has Summary='''Disputation through Signs'''

	A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', ~~it is a sultan sending someone to~~ a non-Muslim vassal state to see if they should continue paying tribute.) The amabassador arrives in the foreign court, and does not speak, but instead holds out his hand in a distinctive gesture. No one knows what this means, but at last a man of humble standing (a wandering dervish in the ''Forty Viziers''; a low-ranked senator widely regarded as a fool in ''Stefano'') steps forward, and makes a gesture in return. The ambassador responds with another movement of his hands, and the man replies with a different gesture. After this exchange, the ambassador looks impressed, and bows respectfully, returning to his own land. The humble man had interpreted the exchange as a series of threats (one finger held up means he promises to pluck out an eye; three fingers means he will strike us after gouging out both eyes; fingers pointing upward means I will strike from below, etc.) and is pleased to have won this battle of gestures. However, the ambassador had interpreted the exchange as a theological dispute. He tells the members of his own court not to go to war with the foreign country, for their representative successfully interpreted religious arguments through hand gestures. (In ''The Forty Viziers'', the number of fingers correspond with the number of times one must pray daily; in ''Stefano,'' the fingers represent God, then the Father and Son, then the Trinity, who are themselves all one, as demonstrated by the fingers curled into a fist.)		A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', a non-Muslim vassal state sends a messenger to test the wisdom of the sultan's court, to see if they should continue paying tribute.) The amabassador arrives in the foreign court, and does not speak, but instead holds out his hand in a distinctive gesture. No one knows what this means, but at last a man of humble standing (a wandering dervish in the ''Forty Viziers''; a low-ranked senator widely regarded as a fool in ''Stefano'') steps forward, and makes a gesture in return. The ambassador responds with another movement of his hands, and the man replies with a different gesture. After this exchange, the ambassador looks impressed, and bows respectfully, returning to his own land. The humble man had interpreted the exchange as a series of threats (one finger held up means he promises to pluck out an eye; three fingers means he will strike us after gouging out both eyes; fingers pointing upward means I will strike from below, etc.) and is pleased to have won this battle of gestures. However, the ambassador had interpreted the exchange as a theological dispute. He tells the members of his own court not to go to war with the foreign country, for their representative successfully interpreted religious arguments through hand gestures. (In ''The Forty Viziers'', the number of fingers correspond with the number of times one must pray daily; in ''Stefano,'' the fingers represent God, then the Father and Son, then the Trinity, who are themselves all one, as demonstrated by the fingers curled into a fist.)
	\|Has Note=Nishimura notes:		\|Has Note=Nishimura notes:

Bonsall at 10:04, 24 November 2025

2025-11-24T10:04:58Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:04, 24 November 2025
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	{{Inset Story		{{Inset Story
	\|Has Summary='''~~Disputatio gestu~~'''		\|Has Critical Literature=Nishimura (2001); Rajna (1878); Rajna (1880); Gibb (1886)
			\|Has Summary='''Disputation through Signs'''

	A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', it is a sultan sending someone to a vassal state to see if they should continue paying tribute.) The amabassador arrives in the foreign court, and does not speak, but instead holds out his hand in a distinctive gesture. No one knows what this means, but at last a man of humble standing (a wandering dervish in the ''Forty Viziers''; a low-ranked senator widely regarded as a fool in ''Stefano'') steps forward, and makes a gesture in return. The ambassador responds with another movement of his hands, and the man replies with a different gesture. After this exchange, the ambassador looks impressed, and bows respectfully, returning to his own land. The humble man had interpreted the exchange as a series of threats (one finger held up means he promises to pluck out an eye; three fingers means he will strike us after gouging out both eyes; fingers pointing upward means I will strike from below, etc.) and is pleased to have won this battle of gestures. However, the ambassador had interpreted the exchange as a theological dispute. He tells the members of his own court not to go to war with the foreign country, for their representative successfully interpreted religious arguments through hand gestures. (In ''The Forty Viziers'', the number of fingers correspond with the number of times one must pray daily; in ''Stefano,'' the fingers represent God, then the Father and Son, then the Trinity, who are themselves all one, as demonstrated by the fingers curled into a fist).		A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', it is a sultan sending someone to a non-Muslim vassal state to see if they should continue paying tribute.) The amabassador arrives in the foreign court, and does not speak, but instead holds out his hand in a distinctive gesture. No one knows what this means, but at last a man of humble standing (a wandering dervish in the ''Forty Viziers''; a low-ranked senator widely regarded as a fool in ''Stefano'') steps forward, and makes a gesture in return. The ambassador responds with another movement of his hands, and the man replies with a different gesture. After this exchange, the ambassador looks impressed, and bows respectfully, returning to his own land. The humble man had interpreted the exchange as a series of threats (one finger held up means he promises to pluck out an eye; three fingers means he will strike us after gouging out both eyes; fingers pointing upward means I will strike from below, etc.) and is pleased to have won this battle of gestures. However, the ambassador had interpreted the exchange as a theological dispute. He tells the members of his own court not to go to war with the foreign country, for their representative successfully interpreted religious arguments through hand gestures. (In ''The Forty Viziers'', the number of fingers correspond with the number of times one must pray daily; in ''Stefano,'' the fingers represent God, then the Father and Son, then the Trinity, who are themselves all one, as demonstrated by the fingers curled into a fist.)
			\|Has Note=Nishimura notes:

			'''Motifs and Types:''' TMI H607: Discussion by symbols. H607.1: Discussion between priest and Jew carried by symbols. J1804: Conversation by sign language mutually misunderstood. ATU 924 Discussion in sign language. TU2275 Significance of Gestures.

			'''Analogues:''' Jātaka, 546 ‘Maha-ummagga-j.’; Juan Luiz, ''Book of Good Love'', sections 47-63; Pauli, ''Schimpf und Ernst'', 32 ‘Ein Narr überdisputiert Witzigen’; Sercambi, ''Il Novelliere'', 15 (combined with the parallels in ''Grimm’s Fairy Tales'', KHM 98, ‘Doktor Allwissend’); Rabelais, ''Pantagruel'', Book II. Chapters 18-20 (also in Book III, Ch. 20); Béroalde de Verville, ''Le Moyen de Parvenir'', 100, end of ‘Testimony’; Behrnauer, ‘Die Geschichte von Togrul-Bei und seinen Kindern’, in ''Die vierzig Wesire'' (pp. 718-723); ''Nasreddin Hoca Monogatari'', pp. 73-75, ‘The Lame Timur…’; ''Nasreddin Hodscha'' (ed. Marzolph), 588; Schwarzbaum, ''Jewish and World Folklore'', № 39 ‘Everyone is using his own Language’; the Welsh folktale ‘Finger Question and Answer’ (''The World of English Folklore Literature'', pp. 267-268); the second half of ‘The Frog Fisher’s Rise’ in ''Vietnamese Folktales'', 31; Eberhard, ''Typen chinesischer Volksmärchen'', 194 ‘Der Schuster wird Kaiselicher Schwiegersohn’; ''Nihon Mukashibanashi Tsukan'', 28, ‘Type Index’ 806 ‘Kon’nyaku Mondo’; Rakugo ‘Kon’nyaku Mondo’; Choi In Hak, ''A Study on Korean Folktales…'', 638 ‘Mochi Lover and Messenger Question and Answer".

			'''Bibliography:''' Chauvin VIII112. Minakata Kumagusu, ‘Theological Disputations by Means of Signs’. ''A World Tour of Laughter'', pp. 10-17 ‘Kon’nyaku Mondo’. An Yuchin, ‘The Comedy of Illusion in Japanese and Korean Laughing Stories’. ''Nihon Mukashibanashi Tsukan'', ‘Kenkyu-hen 2’, 806.
	}}		}}

Bonsall: Created page with "{{Inset Story |Has Summary='''Disputatio gestu''' A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', it is a sultan sending someone to a vassal state to see if they should continue paying tribute...."

2025-11-24T09:42:08Z

Created page with "{{Inset Story |Has Summary='''Disputatio gestu''' A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', it is a sultan sending someone to a vassal state to see if they should continue paying tribute...."

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{{Inset Story
|Has Summary='''Disputatio gestu'''

A powerful nation send a messanger to an enemy kingdom, to negotiate their relationship, and to see whether they will arrive at a place of peace by testing the wisdom and insight of the population. (In the Italian ''Stefano'', it is the Carthaginians sending an ambassador to Rome, considering peace; in ''The Forty Viziers'', it is a sultan sending someone to a vassal state to see if they should continue paying tribute.) The amabassador arrives in the foreign court, and does not speak, but instead holds out his hand in a distinctive gesture. No one knows what this means, but at last a man of humble standing (a wandering dervish in the ''Forty Viziers''; a low-ranked senator widely regarded as a fool in ''Stefano'') steps forward, and makes a gesture in return. The ambassador responds with another movement of his hands, and the man replies with a different gesture. After this exchange, the ambassador looks impressed, and bows respectfully, returning to his own land. The humble man had interpreted the exchange as a series of threats (one finger held up means he promises to pluck out an eye; three fingers means he will strike us after gouging out both eyes; fingers pointing upward means I will strike from below, etc.) and is pleased to have won this battle of gestures. However, the ambassador had interpreted the exchange as a theological dispute. He tells the members of his own court not to go to war with the foreign country, for their representative successfully interpreted religious arguments through hand gestures. (In ''The Forty Viziers'', the number of fingers correspond with the number of times one must pray daily; in ''Stefano,'' the fingers represent God, then the Father and Son, then the Trinity, who are themselves all one, as demonstrated by the fingers curled into a fist).
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